Huhne on the Annual Report of the Intelligence and Security Committee

11.33.41am BST (GMT +0100) Fri 18th Jul 2008

• ' . . I WOULD particularly like to pay tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend Sir Alan Beith on the Committee. Members might be aware that he is not present today because he is recovering from successful treatment for a heart problem . . '

[Jul 17] Christopher Huhne (Shadow Secretary of State for Home Affairs, Home Affairs; Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat): I apologise to the Home Secretary for missing the beginning of her speech. I am pleased to follow Margaret Beckett and to know that the Intelligence and Security Committee is in her good hands; she has had experience in Government of dealing with many parts of the relevant agencies.

We support the provisions in the White Paper, "The Governance of Britain". We will also support the amendments tabled by the hon. Members for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay) and for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick), which add to the transparency and accountability and, to some degree, clarify the separation of powers, which has become somewhat muddled in this area. We also welcome the Committee's authoritative and detailed annual report for 2006-07. I would particularly like to pay tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend Sir Alan Beith on the Committee. Members might be aware that he is not present today because he is recovering from successful treatment for a heart problem. I am sure that all Members of the House wish him a speedy recovery. [Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."]

I should also like to put on record on behalf of the Liberal Democrats our support for the brave work of the intelligence services in protecting the lives of our citizens and the safety of our communities. I very much hope that, in line with the right hon. Member for Derby, South's suggestion, we shall be able to have debates on the ad hoc reports of the Committee-as they sometimes highlight the very useful work that the intelligence services do-as well as on the annual report.

I also note that the last ISC report was produced more than two years ago, and it is perhaps regrettable that we have not had a chance to discuss this matter before. The report that we are discussing today covers the period up to October 2007, and was published in January 2008. I hope that, in future, we can return to an annual cycle, because describing this as an annual report puts us at some risk of contravening the Trade Descriptions Act.

We support the measures to bring the appointments procedure in line with standard practice, as set out in paragraph 237 of the White Paper, "The Governance of Britain", and the members of the Intelligence and Security Committee's standing order. It is right that Parliament, and not the Prime Minister, should have the primary role in nominating members of the Committee, if only to preserve some form of separation of the legislature from the Executive. The ISC must be independent of the Government, and it must be seen to be independent if its reports are to have the standing that they deserve. I believe that the intelligence services see the merit of that argument from their point of view as well, understandable though their concerns are about putting information that might be of use to our enemies into the public domain.

We welcome the moves to explore alternative accommodation options for the ISC, with the necessary private, secure environment, away from the Cabinet Office. I hope that these are not just empty words, and that the Foreign Secretary will be able to give us more information on any progress in that regard when he replies to the debate. Perhaps in our debate on these matters next year, we will be able to have a report on the successful conclusion of that move.

The issue of independence is at the heart of the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Thurrock. Obviously, the sensitive nature of the information being handled means that the Committee requires heavily security cleared and trusted staff, but I do not believe that such staff cannot be under the authority of the Clerk of the House. In fact, I can think of few people more highly regarded and trusted by Members on both sides of the House. It is also vital, especially as the ISC expands its investigatory work, that there is no question of the Executive having improper influence over the staff of the Committee.

I am sure that the Minister will agree that public briefings by agency heads or Ministers are no replacement for a properly constituted public Committee meeting. We recognise that some meetings-indeed, probably the great majority of them-will need to be held in private. However, the ISC should have the option of meeting in public, and I was delighted to hear that possibility being mentioned by the right hon. Member for Derby, South. For this reason, we will support the amendments.

In the debate on the previous report, my right hon. Friend Mr. Clegg expressed the Liberal Democrats' support for the regionalisation programme within the Security Service. We are delighted to hear that it has been such a success. I very much share the sentiments expressed by Mr. Grieve, who said that the excessiveness of the secrecy applied to the reports is demonstrated by the availability of the information on public websites. It might be sensible if, before the next report is sent to the House, the redactor checked exactly what is available in the public domain on websites; it tends to be rather more than we might like.

Dari Taylor (Stockton South, Labour): I hope that the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge that the Intelligence and Security Committee published its report in December 2007. It is now summer 2008. Since December 2007, much information has appeared in the public domain that was not previously available, so there is a time gap.

Christopher Huhne (Shadow Secretary of State for Home Affairs, Home Affairs; Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat): I take the hon. Lady's point, and any information that was secret at the time of the report, but that has since become public, is not covered by my injunction. Nevertheless, I suspect that if the exercise that I suggested were carried out before the redaction of next year's report, the hon. Lady would still be surprised to discover just how much information was available on public websites. That is true with regard to many matters, not least Members' addresses. It is quite astonishing what one can find out on 192.com, without having to ring up a member of the Security Service.

Julian Lewis (Shadow Minister, Defence; New Forest East, Conservative): I cannot resist taking this opportunity to say that although the hon. Gentleman thought he would be able to get my address on 192.com, I checked it out, and he would not have succeeded. The main point is that there is a difference between something being available on some unauthorised site on the internet, and something being confirmed in an official publication.

Christopher Huhne (Shadow Secretary of State for Home Affairs, Home Affairs; Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat): I take the hon. Gentleman's point, and I will not try to transgress the boundaries of what is relevant to the debate any longer. I take what he says on board.

Members will be aware of the Liberal Democrats' long-standing concern about the decision to halt the Serious Fraud Office investigation into BAE Systems' dealings with Saudi Arabia. I do not wish to repeat our position, which my hon. Friend Dr. Cable has made clear in numerous debates in the House, but it disappoints us that the ISC was refused sight of the minute from the Prime Minister to the Attorney-General that accompanied the note, "The Saudi contribution to our domestic and international efforts to combat terrorism". That whole episode has done great damage to our reputation at home and abroad. I note that the Committee states that it

"is satisfied that...there were serious national security considerations which contributed to the Serious Fraud Office's decision to halt the investigation".

Obviously, I can only take the Committee at its word, but the fact that investigations into corruption must be stopped for that reason does not, in the public's mind, reflect well on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Government or the security services.

Siôn Simon (Birmingham, Erdington, Labour): Mr. Grieve was careful to say that although we want to push the envelope, as far as transparency and accountability are concerned, we do not want to risk second-guessing things that we do not really know about. Are not Chris Huhne and his Front-Bench colleagues already crossing that line?

Christopher Huhne (Shadow Secretary of State for Home Affairs, Home Affairs; Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat): I do not believe that I am crossing that line, in relation to the issue of whether to intervene in a legal investigation, because there are wider considerations than those that are of concern to the intelligence services, not least among which is the reputation of British businesses. How many of them will lose business as a result of clients' fears that if they do business with British businesses, it might be taken as a sign that they are in receipt of corrupt payments or bribes? There are wider considerations, and although the Foreign Secretary, whom we welcome to the Chamber, is chortling at that, I assure him that in many parts of the world it is significant for clients to know that business contracts are being signed for the right reasons, not the wrong ones.

I note that the Committee has reiterated the importance of intercept evidence, while respecting the point that we await the result of the Government's deliberations on the Chilcot review. We hope that a resolution can quickly be found that allows for the successful prosecution of terror suspects by using intercept evidence while protecting the needs of our security services. We know, for example, that that has been done successfully in the United States and Australia, both of which are in close intelligence relationships with our intelligence services. Liberal Democrat Members therefore see no reason why we should not proceed.

In July 2007, the ISC produced its special report on rendition, which shows the important work that the ISC must be allowed to perform on the operations of the intelligence services. I pay tribute to the Committee for that work.

Reports such as this seem to show the importance of having an investigator with extensive powers. It is disappointing that the Committee has been without an investigator since 2004, when the then investigator, John Morrison, appeared on "Panorama", after which his contract was-perhaps unsurprisingly-not renewed. It is surely possible for the Committee to find an investigator whose contractual terms ensure that they do not pop up on prime-time television. Although we welcome the commitment in the reform proposals to appoint an investigatory team, I hope that the skills and experience of that team are well used and allow greater scrutiny.

Overall, we welcome the report and the suggested reforms. We hope that debates will become annual and that the independence of the ISC will be cemented by the acceptance of the amendment. We also congratulate the staff of the intelligence services on their work.